well i think anyone that frequents my blogs knows the value i place on securing the perfect image, if at all possible, for every post,, be it poetry, essay, or fiction...
i feel a visual addition,, even one that is not the stimulation behind a particular piece can add tenfold to the quality of the "image" i am forever attempting to achieve....
I think Pound’s definition gets at the work entailed, and the level of achievement gained in moving the poetic image from the poet's eye to words on a page, and then back (often in a somewhat altered state) to another’s eye (the reader’s).
Both the writing and the reading require energy and several fused ideas to make the poetic image a success.
Since Pound uses the word "vortex," the statement may date from the period (ca. 1914-1915) when he had essentially gotten tired of the earlier "Imagist" approach which he and several poet colleagues had advocated, and was trying to define a new approach to poems and images in poems.
He called the alternative the "vortex," and the brief movement that followed was known as "vorticism," expressed in the magazine Blast which Pound published briefly.
"The vorticist relies on this alone; on the primary pigment of his art, nothing else.
"Every conception, every emotion presents itself to the vivid consciousness in some primary form.
"It is the picture that means a hundred poems, the music that means a hundred pictures, the most highly energized statement, the statement that has not yet SPENT itself in expression, but which is the most capable of expressing."
The above is quoted from a statement by Pound in one of the issues of Blast.
I should perhaps say here that I'm not a huge admirer of Pound, either of his poetry in general, or of his aesthetic or political outlook.
I tend to agree with comments made by poet Robert Bly regarding the Imagist approach Pound advocated:
"But 'Imagism' was largely 'Picturism.' An image and a picture differ in that the image, being natural to the speech of the imagination, cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the real world. It is an animal native to the imagination. Like Bonnefoy's 'an interior sea lighted by turning eagles,' it cannot be seen in real life. A picture, on the other hand, is drawn from the objective 'real' world. 'Petals on a wet black bough' can actually be seen."
I prefer Bly's approach, which has much affinity with many twentieth century Spanish language poets (e.g. Neruda, Lorca, Jimenez, Vallejo, etc.) and some of the more imaginative twentieth century French poets (Eluard, Bonnefoy, and so on).
SG, Agreed. "The image is more than an idea. It is a vortex or cluster of fused ideas and is endowed with energy."
The poet has an idea, but to convey it faithfully, to convey a smile, say, (s)he must necessarily work to present it to the reader "as a cluster" of several other ideas that "fuse" and say, Ta da! A smile!
Lyle, I love me some Pound (the one I can understand). I think sometimes he goes so far in his search for the presentation of his idea using clusters of other ideas that I, for one, gets lost. But I've seen and enjoyed in his poetry some of the clearest and most pared down (and therefore communicative) writing around.
What you quote in your comment is most expressive of Pound's view of imagery: "It is the picture that means a hundred poems, the music that means a hundred pictures, the most highly energized statement, the statement that has not yet SPENT itself in expression, but which is the most capable of expressing." That says a lot of it.
He also liked to say that an image or vortex was the collision of emotion and intellect, though not in those exact words.
I wasn't aware of Mr Bly's comments vis-à-vis Imagism (which Pound bitterly started calling Amy-gism, after Amy Lowell joined the London group and started modifying their approach). I think he's right. I understand him to say that an image is abstract (can be imagined but not experienced), while a picture is concrete (can be imagined and can be experienced), and that a picture is therefore preferable in poetry.
It was interesting to hear Mr Bly pitch "Petals on a wet, black bough" against "An interior sea lighted by turning eagles" (cf your comment), as the former is from Pound's representative poem, "In a Station of the Metro"
9 comments:
I agree with him 100%......I'm going for a walk in the woods and will think on it there *grin*.
Have a good walk.
well i think anyone that frequents my blogs knows the value i place on securing the perfect image, if at all possible, for every post,, be it poetry, essay, or fiction...
i feel a visual addition,, even one that is not the stimulation behind a particular piece can add tenfold to the quality of the "image" i am forever attempting to achieve....
I think Pound’s definition gets at the work entailed, and the level of achievement gained in moving the poetic image from the poet's eye to words on a page, and then back (often in a somewhat altered state) to another’s eye (the reader’s).
Both the writing and the reading require energy and several fused ideas to make the poetic image a success.
rethabile, you are next on the poco collaborative poem...I posted my line
Since Pound uses the word "vortex," the statement may date from the period (ca. 1914-1915) when he had essentially gotten tired of the earlier "Imagist" approach which he and several poet colleagues had advocated, and was trying to define a new approach to poems and images in poems.
He called the alternative the "vortex," and the brief movement that followed was known as "vorticism," expressed in the magazine Blast which Pound published briefly.
"The vorticist relies on this alone; on the primary pigment of his art, nothing else.
"Every conception, every emotion presents itself to the vivid consciousness in some primary form.
"It is the picture that means a hundred poems, the music that means a hundred pictures, the most highly energized statement, the statement that has not yet SPENT itself in expression, but which is the most capable of expressing."
The above is quoted from a statement by Pound in one of the issues of Blast.
I should perhaps say here that I'm not a huge admirer of Pound, either of his poetry in general, or of his aesthetic or political outlook.
I tend to agree with comments made by poet Robert Bly regarding the Imagist approach Pound advocated:
"But 'Imagism' was largely 'Picturism.' An image and a picture differ in that the image, being natural to the speech of the imagination, cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the real world. It is an animal native to the imagination. Like Bonnefoy's 'an interior sea lighted by turning eagles,' it cannot be seen in real life. A picture, on the other hand, is drawn from the objective 'real' world. 'Petals on a wet black bough' can actually be seen."
I prefer Bly's approach, which has much affinity with many twentieth century Spanish language poets (e.g. Neruda, Lorca, Jimenez, Vallejo, etc.) and some of the more imaginative twentieth century French poets (Eluard, Bonnefoy, and so on).
More on Bly's notions about images here.
Jodi,
Yes. I've often wondered if you started with a visual image on your slate, or found the image as you went along.
SG,
Agreed. "The image is more than an idea. It is a vortex or cluster of fused ideas and is endowed with energy."
The poet has an idea, but to convey it faithfully, to convey a smile, say, (s)he must necessarily work to present it to the reader "as a cluster" of several other ideas that "fuse" and say, Ta da! A smile!
Or a pig or a red fire-truck.
Lyle,
I love me some Pound (the one I can understand). I think sometimes he goes so far in his search for the presentation of his idea using clusters of other ideas that I, for one, gets lost. But I've seen and enjoyed in his poetry some of the clearest and most pared down (and therefore communicative) writing around.
What you quote in your comment is most expressive of Pound's view of imagery: "It is the picture that means a hundred poems, the music that means a hundred pictures, the most highly energized statement, the statement that has not yet SPENT itself in expression, but which is the most capable of expressing." That says a lot of it.
He also liked to say that an image or vortex was the collision of emotion and intellect, though not in those exact words.
I wasn't aware of Mr Bly's comments vis-à-vis Imagism (which Pound bitterly started calling Amy-gism, after Amy Lowell joined the London group and started modifying their approach). I think he's right. I understand him to say that an image is abstract (can be imagined but not experienced), while a picture is concrete (can be imagined and can be experienced), and that a picture is therefore preferable in poetry.
It was interesting to hear Mr Bly pitch "Petals on a wet, black bough" against "An interior sea lighted by turning eagles" (cf your comment), as the former is from Pound's representative poem, "In a Station of the Metro"
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